Daily Kos

Memorial Day Manifesto: 2007

Mon May 28, 2007 at 05:49:23 AM PDT

Ten score and eighteen years ago, a few deep thinking, wealthy white landowners penned the United States Constitution. Its first three words – "We the People" -affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens.

Article I affirms that all legislative powers "shall be vested in a Congress" who ideally would represent "we the people" and not corporate interests.

"...Peace in the Middle East is not going to be achieved at gunpoint. It is going to be achieved by negotiations, by people working together; and that process may be ugly, dirty and slow, but it is the only process that will work. To create additional hardship and suffering for the Palestinians is simply going to guarantee more desperate, angry men who are fully determined that they will go forth to kill Israelis or Americans or anybody else...

"Our purpose here...should be to look to the well-being of the United States, craft a policy which is good for this country. And that policy can only be one which is good for Israel and for the Palestinian people, one which is fair to all, one which puts the United States as a friend and an honest broker of peace to both parties where we can be so accepted..." Rep. John Dingell (D-MI-15) May 2006.

Last week, United for Peace and Justice, the nation's largest antiwar coalition, flooded Capitol Hill with phone calls demanding Congress vote no to another $96 billion for the war in Iraq.

UFPJ National Coordinator Leslie Cagan commented, "We know the switchboards have been jammed and Congress is hearing the message from voters loud and clear: Stop funding this war and bring the troops home. The problem is, most members of Congress are not listening to the people who elected them." [1]

A moral compass is MIA in a Congress where Democrats and Republicans who opposed the escalation of the number of troops in Iraq, never the less, still funded it. Congress has the power to end the war; they need the desire and political will to accomplish what they were elected to do. We the people must light that fire, for

We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that, among these, are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; and, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it.

-July 14, 1776. The Declaration of Independence

The October 2006 edition of The Lancet, a British Medical Journal, concluded that 654,965 Iraqis, [about 500 people a day] have died as a result of the U.S.-led invasion on March 20, 2003. [2]

Nearly 4,000 Americans have also perished and the number of people dying in Iraq has risen on an annual basis.

Fifteen million U.S.A. tax dollars a day provide Israel the means to continue its 40 years of occupation of Palestine; while International Law states occupation is to be temporary.

"Every day, the U.S gives more than $7,023,288 to the Israeli government and military (and at least $108 billion since 1948), but provides nothing to the Palestinians...The indirect or consequential costs to the American taxpayer as a result of Washington's blind support for Israel exceed by many times the amount of direct U.S. aid to Israel." [3]

Candidate Bush claimed his favorite philosopher was Jesus. Actually following the philosophy Jesus taught, would result in a nonviolent, humble, contrite and forgiving soul.

2,000 years ago a few, thoughtful, committed social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian Jewish road warriors rose up and challenged the injustices inflicted upon the poor and oppressed by the empire and occupying force at that time: Rome.

2,000 years ago the empire crucified many thoughtful, committed social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian Jews-and pagans- who rose up and challenged the injustices inflicted upon the poor, the oppressed, those without a voice and representation.

Imagine if during the dramatic disengagement in Gaza in the summer of 2005, a global Marshall Plan had been implemented.

Imagine if the 50-70% unemployment rate in Gaza had been addressed by providing fruit bearing trees, cisterns, and irrigation supplies that would give the refugees something to do on top of the soil since Israel still maintained-and still does- all control of land, air and sea borders.

Imagine transforming the open air prison into food producing land and how that would transform hearts and minds. It would also provide a future with hope for the majority of Gaza residents are under the age of twenty. Only twenty-five olive trees can sustain the average sized Palestinian family of five.

Imagine a foreign policy that would build security and a chance for a future with hope for the poverty stricken people in impoverished countries, and not use them as cheap labor pools for corporate interests.

The well being of every American depends on the well being of every other person and all the earth.

The well being of every Israeli depends on the well being of every Palestinian.

Imagine a Memorial Day in America when we no longer celebrate or make  war, but have become  peacemakers, and as Christ claimed; it is they who are the children of God.

"Soon after I had published the pamphlet "Common Sense" [on Feb. 14, 1776] in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion... The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."-Tom Paine

"You must give birth to your dreams and images; They are the future waiting to be born; FEAR NOT the strangeness you feel; the future must enter you, long before it happens."-Rilke

  1. http://www.unitedforpeace.org/...
  1. http://www.cnn.com/...
  1. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/...

Tags: War, Peace, Memorial Day, 110th Congress, Founding Fathers, Iraq, Israel, Gaza, George W. Bush, Jesus (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 120 comments

  •  Folks should take a good, long look at (7+ / 0-)

    your thread from yesterday while evaluating this one.  Note:  The original title did not contain that question, rather it stated it as fact:

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Caveat emptor.

    Cheers.

    •  Why can't you stick to this diary? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ptah the Great

      Why is it such a challenge for so many DK readers, to stick to current Topic?

      What has yesterday's diary to do with this post?

      Why not, comment on my words above?

      Living in the past lacks soul. Stay in the moment and cheers 2 U.

      e
      http://www.wearewideawake.org/

      •  Good morning, Ma'am. (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Turkana, MBNYC, jhecht, zemblan, dmnyct

        As a humble lawyer critter I can assure you that the credibility of a witness is always a relevant issue.  It's the same on the "internets", most particularly here, where credibility is built over time.  I make no comment about the content of this diary nor yesterday's but merely suggest that those seeking enlightenment should examine the full body of your work rather than any one statement in isolation.  Yesterday you responded to someone else who cited your previous work thusly:  

        "wonderful!!!
        As I stand on EVERY word I write, I am very grateful that you are reading, saving and then posting my words again!!!"

        Perhaps you could extend me the same courtesy.  Your comments here and elsewhere   deserve to be treated as a contiguous body of work.  Nothing less would be fair to you--or us.  I'm sure you've heard the snarky, "Google is your friend";  in your case, not so much.

        Be well.  

        •  i am not following (0+ / 0-)

          I am OK about the "contiguous body of work" but I am lost re:

          I'm sure you've heard the snarky, "Google is your friend";  in your case, not so much.

          Please elaborate on why you think that.

          I just googled 'eileen fleming' and found it very friendly towards me.

      •  Eileen, (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        TeresaInPa
        please be careful not to blame "so many DK readers". You have met a tiny, tiny group who come merely to disrupt discussion that shows Israel in a bad light.

        When the camel stumbles, the knives come out. (Arab proverb)

        by Ptah the Great on Mon May 28, 2007 at 07:29:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  thank you Ptah and i have a ? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TeresaInPa, Ptah the Great

          Do you recommend I just ignore them again?

          When I originally tried that, i was attacked for not engaging in conversation.

          My sense is most people do not comment but they do THINK, and some readers just have a lot of time on their hands and a chip on their shoulder and so are unable to keep to the topic, they just want to lash out.

          I also think some readers are so defensive because they have never been to OPT;

          And thus, they are limited in comprehending the facts on the ground.

          However, today's diary is about many other things beyond OPT and i hope someone will comment on that!

          THNX again for your insight and writing.

          e
          http://www.wearewideawake.org/

        •  correction (6+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          dvo, Turkana, MajorFlaw, Pumpkinlove, MBNYC, dmnyct

          You've met a group of people who think that your involvement with an overt hate site destroys -- the same one that publishes Holocaust deniers and white supremacists -- your credibility. You've apparently also met at least one person willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that you advertise on a hate site.

          In memory of Tom Disch.

          by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 08:32:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  USG aid to the Palestinians (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Adam B, unfounded, Pumpkinlove, MBNYC, dmnyct

    >...."Every day, the U.S gives more than $7,023,288 to the Israeli government and military (and at least $108 billion since 1948), but provides nothing to the Palestinians...

      Nope.
    The Agency for Int'l. Development has given hundreds of millions of dollars to Palestinians.
    http://www.google.com/...
    http://72.14.253.104/...
      FY '94-'98 368 million.

  •  Table 3, U.S. Assistance to West Bank & Gaza (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Adam B, unfounded, MBNYC

    http://72.14.253.104/...  
     FY 1975-2004, total $1,244,150,000

  •  U.S. Aid to Palestinians to Increase in FY2000 (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MBNYC
  •  Palestinian Jews? (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Turkana, MBNYC, zemblan, Shane Hensinger

    More propaganda Eileen, or just more bullshit?

    McCain's 3AM ad is really a Flomax commercial.

    by jhecht on Mon May 28, 2007 at 07:45:21 AM PDT

    •  ... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ptah the Great, Predictor

      ...i realize now / you were not to be blamed, my love / you didn't choose your name, my love...

      by Diaries on Mon May 28, 2007 at 07:47:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  how about a right of return for 900,000 jews? (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dvo, Pumpkinlove, MBNYC

      'A Population and Property Transfer': The Forgotten Exodus Of Jews from Arab Lands
       http://72.14.253.104/...

    •  BS: NOT! Reality: YES!!! (0+ / 0-)

      Jesus was NEVER a Christian.

      The term was NOT even coined until 3 decades after JC walked the earth.

      JC was born, lived and died under OCCUPATION.

      JC was a social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior, NOT a Christian.

      JC rose up/intifada and challenged the job security of the Temple priests by teaching such subversive concepts as no need to pay the priests for ritual baths and sacrificing livestock to be OK with God, for God loved the people just as they were: sinners, outcasts, poor, oppressed, widows, orphans, prisoners and refugees ALL enduring under OCCUPATION.

      Not propaganda; but reality!

    •  The PLO definition of Palestinian (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MBNYC, dmnyct

      Primary sources:

      From the Palestinian National Charter adopted in 1968:

      Article 4:
      The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from parents to children. . . .

      Article 5:
      The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.

      Article 6:
      The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians.

      somewhat revising the first Palestine National Covenant written in 1964:

      Article 5. The Palestinian personality is a permanent and genuine characteristic that does not disappear. It is transferred from fathers to sons.

      Article 6. The Palestinians are those Arab citizens who were living normally in Palestine up to 1947, whether they remained or were expelled. Every child who was born to a Palestinian parent after this date whether in Palestine or outside is a Palestinian.

      Article 7. Jews of Palestinian origin are considered Palestinians if they are willing to live peacefully and loyally in Palestine.

      I have included both versions because of an apparent slight shift towards patriarchalism in the more recent version.

      Of course, both documents primarily consider Palestinians to be Arabs. For example, the language that immediately follows the definition of Palestinian in the 1968 Charter, states:

      Article 7:
      . . . . It is a national duty to bring up individual Palestinians in an Arab revolutionary manner. . . .

      It should be noted that the Hamas Covenant of 1988 has no comparable language, as it does not attempt to identify the Palestinian identity. Hamas (an acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement) is purely an Islamic movement which sees Palestinian nationalism as part of a greater whole:

      Article Twelve:
      Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land.

      Democrats: Members of the Democratic Party working to advance democracy; Republicons: Members of the Republicanist Party working to advance Republicanism

      by word is bond on Mon May 28, 2007 at 10:56:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Further Facts on the ground (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TeresaInPa

    "The United States does not provide any aid to the Palestinian government. Also, following the democratic election of a Hamas government, the United States has cut off all humanitarian aid as well."
    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/...

  •  Hi, Eileen (12+ / 0-)

    You never responded to my question last night as to why you referred to

    Father Abraham's dysfunctional family

     I take great offense to that, as I'm sure millions of other Muslims and Jews do, as well.

    •  OFFENSE is what i am after (0+ / 0-)

      What a sorry bunch of cousins the 'leaders' of the world are;

      "Civilized" white men divided the one world up over 200 arbitrary lines that only exist on maps and in their minds.

      Unless men evolve beyond the tribal mentality;

      and WAKE UP and see we are all interconnected, inter dependent and injustice

      ANY WHERE, effects us all.

      i am working for justice, peace, security for all and that also means nuclear disarmament for ALL.

      ALL religions teach NONVIOLENCE and LOVE of the other; NOT torture or bombing any, for ALL humans are embodiments of The Divine; even if they are too blind to know it, or too timid to look within.

      Time to evolve: WAKE UP!

      Fundamentalism is Holding up Evolution

      http://www.wearewideawake.org/...

      •  How dare you talk about justice? (8+ / 0-)

        When you come here and spread lies and nonsense. Yesterday you claimed there was an Israeli memo saying the 6 Day War was illegal when it said no such thing. Today you claim Jesus was a Palestinian without the slightest proof. Most modern historians and theologans suspect he was an Essene, but no legitimate historian or theologan has ever called him a Palestinian. Your diary on a so-called 'respected' journalist named Mohammad, was the 'Plan 9 From Outer Space" of I/P diaries; an anti-masterpiece of stupidity. You talk about justice and truth, yet you persist in spreading lies and propaganda. How do you reconcile that?

        McCain's 3AM ad is really a Flomax commercial.

        by jhecht on Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:19:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  doesn't living in area (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Ptah the Great

          known at that time as Palestine more or less make him a Palestinian?

          •  Except he was born and living in a land (7+ / 0-)

            called Judea, not Palestine.

            McCain's 3AM ad is really a Flomax commercial.

            by jhecht on Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:27:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  not (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Ptah the Great

              it was all known as Palestine, of which Judea was a part.  Maybe not by you, but you are not the official word.

              •  Link? Evidence? or your word? n/t (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                MajorFlaw, Shane Hensinger

                Democrats: Members of the Democratic Party working to advance democracy; Republicons: Members of the Republicanist Party working to advance Republicanism

                by word is bond on Mon May 28, 2007 at 10:58:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have read medieval documents (0+ / 0-)

                  in Arabic that refer to the area as Palestine and the inhabitants as Palestinians.

                  When the camel stumbles, the knives come out. (Arab proverb)

                  by Ptah the Great on Mon May 28, 2007 at 11:51:03 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Time Line (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    MajorFlaw, Pumpkinlove

                    As I recall, Jesus was pre-medieval.

                    There is no question, however, that the Roman Empire renamed the area that had been Judea within a century or so after Jesus' death, giving it the name "Palestina". I have read that this name derived from the Philistines, historic enemies of the Judeans, and was chosen in punishment for a Jewish revolt against the Roman Empire.

                    I hope nothing I have written would be interpreted as questioning the validity of the name "Palestine" for the area during the appropriate time periods.

                    Democrats: Members of the Democratic Party working to advance democracy; Republicons: Members of the Republicanist Party working to advance Republicanism

                    by word is bond on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:43:18 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Point of fact (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                MajorFlaw, Pumpkinlove

                The term 'Palestine' comes from 'Philistine', the people who inhabited a region on the coast roughly around present-day Tel Aviv and spreading northwards. They're linked or related to the Phoenicians, I seem to recall.

                The term Palestine - Palaestina - is Latin and was used as an administrative description by Imperial Rome after the Bar Kochba revolt in 130 or so, long after Jesus had died and as the early church was beginning to solidify as an entity distinct from Judaism. Jesus of Nazareth, the historical figure, lived in Judea, that is, Iudea in Latin, Ioudaia in Greek. Jesus himself was a Jew, one of a species of wandering prophets common around the time, the result of the intellectual ferment of the time. Christianity itself is what happened when Judaism met Zoroastrianism, Greek philosophy and the Gnostics, cf. the concept of Logos ("And the word was with God").

                Please address any and all questions about theology to your resident lapsed Catholics :-)

                Go fuck yourself, you pathetic keyboard anarchist.

                by MBNYC on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:23:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  it is against the rules to (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Adam B, Ptah the Great

      stalk other members.
      You are not automatically entitled to an answer to every comment you make and the diarist is not obligated to answer you, particularly if you are hounding her, which seems likely in this case.

    •  Uprated for bogus tr (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Shane Hensinger

      McCain's 3AM ad is really a Flomax commercial.

      by jhecht on Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:23:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Eileen advertises on a hate site (7+ / 0-)

    ... and she knows it, and she thinks that's somehow okay.

    It's not somehow okay.

    In memory of Tom Disch.

    by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 08:34:39 AM PDT

    •  for the last time (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      james risser

      i am NOT responsible for content editors publish;

      i write to be read and consider it grace; a free gift, that those you find offensive;

      are open to me.

      i hate no one,

      i never have held a grudge,

      i did NOT become afraid after THAT DAY we call 9/11,  

      i became curious instead and traveled 4 times to OPT and am heading back to Bethlehem refugee camps to complete my 3rd book,

      So, This is 53

      what i hate is INJUSTICE, hypocricy and BS

      what i value most is freedom of conscience, thought and speech.

      PLZ have mercy on me,

      stick to my words and you will see;

      i have no hate in me.

      i am a simple, open vessel to the Mystery we call God.

      i have been sent to go bear witness in OPT and report on the Christian EXODUS which has reduced their numbers from 20% of the total population to less than 1.3% since '48.

      the PC's are decendents first century Christians who were called followers of THE WAY:

      THE WAY being what JC really said; you must forgive to be forgiven, you must love all and NOT judge any other heart but your own.

      i write what i see;

      i write from my heart.

      now plz, get over your hangup and judge me on me.

      e
      http://www.wearewideawake.org/

      PS- I also get the ad FREE;
      i am NOT an idiot;
      publicity is publicity and look at all the milegae it has gotten out of so many of you. ENOUGH! You are all better than that!

      Grow UP!

      "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."-John 8:32

      •  you are fully aware it's a hate site (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        unfounded, MajorFlaw, MBNYC, jhritz, dmnyct

        i am NOT responsible for content editors publish;

        But you are fully aware what the editors publish -- and you are fully aware that it's overtly antisemitic and white supremacist. As well as being a 9/11 conspiracy whackdoodle site.

        You are fully aware that you are providing content for a hate site.

        i hate no one,

        Yet you advertise on a hate site and call it "grace" to be able to do so.

        now plz, get over your hangup and judge me on me.

        As I have been doing all along: I have judged -- correctly, I believe -- that you crosspost and advertise on a hate site, and that makes you both unrepresentative of what progressives stand for and deeply unwelcome here.

        In memory of Tom Disch.

        by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:12:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As far as I know: (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          pat208, MajorFlaw

          There's no rule here at Kos against associating with banned users. Now, you may not like it, but as far as I know, Kos has not made a rule about that and Hunter has not made a ruling to that effect.

          •  it's not an issue of banned users (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            MajorFlaw, Pumpkinlove, MBNYC, dmnyct

            In memory of Tom Disch.

            by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:57:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And: (3+ / 0-)

              Has she expressed support for these people?

              •  She placed her advertisement on their site (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                dvo, MBNYC

                Are we supposed to take that as a vote of "I don't support this site"?

                I think you'd have to be pretty naïve to construe it in any other way than support for the site, and since the site is unabashedly filled with hate speech, it's very darn hard not to also construe it as support for hate speech too.

                Which is really not what I think Eileen wants to accomplish, but she's set herself up for it with that ad and is now refusing to see what's obvious to the rest of us -- or at least, most of the rest of us: that her ad is a complete credibility buster that renders anything she might write here as useless.

                In memory of Tom Disch.

                by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 10:21:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well: (0+ / 0-)

                  Can you supply links and evidence that she supposedly advertises on these sites?

                  •  Her own words (0+ / 0-)

                    Here, for example.

                    Democrats: Members of the Democratic Party working to advance democracy; Republicons: Members of the Republicanist Party working to advance Republicanism

                    by word is bond on Mon May 28, 2007 at 11:07:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Also relevant (0+ / 0-)

                    this
                    this
                    this
                    this (PV editor advised her about dKos) and
                    this (advertising on PV is grace)

                    Democrats: Members of the Democratic Party working to advance democracy; Republicons: Members of the Republicanist Party working to advance Republicanism

                    by word is bond on Mon May 28, 2007 at 11:17:37 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I found the site. (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      Ptah the Great

                      But I did not see any of the anti-semetic authors that people mention or anything that could be construed as anti-semetic. It seemed to me to be on a par with Counterpunch -- take it or leave it. It's not a violation of site rules to associate with such sites.

                      •  on a par with Counterpunch... (0+ / 0-)

                        indeed, review a counterpunch collection on palestine and israel,
                        http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/...
                         * Michael Neumann (a relative of Franz Neumann, by the way) has more
                        fun with anti-Semitism: "Undoubtedly there is genuine ant-Semitism in
                        the Arab world: the distribution of the Protocols of the Elders of
                        Zion, the myths about stealing the blood of gentile babies. This is
                        utterly inexucsable. So was your failure to answer Aunt Bee's
                        letter." He goes on to dismiss anti-Semitism as more a feeling than a
                        real threat. "I'm much more scared of really dangerous situations,
                        like driving." The book often veers spuriously between this
                        complacency and a justified dismissal of the abuse of the term
                        "anti-Semitism" by apologists for Israeli policy without bothering to
                        take real anti-Semitism very seriously.

                        • Alexander Cockburn's piece is full of his typical turns of phrase -

                        "a torrent of money from out of stat Jewish organizations...American
                        Jewish money showered upon....outside Jewish money....Zionist
                        influence on the media....Jewish families are proprietors of some of
                        the most powerful newspapers in the country....[I]t's reasonable to
                        point out that Jewish families control the new York Times and
                        Washington Post." Weirdly, AC notes that the "most rabidly"
                        pro-Israel of all the U.S. newspapers is the Wall Street Journal,
                        "which is not Jewish owned" - so what's the relevance of pointing out
                        the Jewish ownership of the NYT and WP, except to flirt with classic
                        stereotypes?

                        • Kurt Nimmo defends Amiri Baraka's terrible 9/11 poem, with its

                        passage asking "Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers/To
                        stay home that day/Why did Sharon stay away?"

                        • Jeffrey Blankfort has a repulsive piece specifically aimed at

                        refuting Chomsky's line that Israel serves U.S. imperial interests,
                        arguing instead that it's the Israeli lobby and its money that's
                        hijacked U.S. policy.

                        • A pseudonymous congressional aide, George Sutherland, likens the

                        U.S. government's relationship with Israel to Vichy France's with
                        Nazi Germany's, and Congressional "Likudniki" to "Quislings." In the
                        piece, "Sutherland" actually refers to the U.S. Senate as "the
                        world's greatest deliberative body," which Cockburn would normally
                        have sport with, except in this context.

                        • Kathleen and Bill Christison, two retired CIA agents, describe

                        Congress as "Israeli occupied territory," and refer to the "dual
                        loyalties" of the Bush administration. They argue that the
                        once-pragmatic Cheney was transformed by all the Israeli agents in
                        the Bush administration. "[L]oyalty to Israel by government officials
                        colors and influences US policymaking in ways that are extrmely
                        dangerous," they conclude - as if Bush's neo-cons weren't driven by
                        their own understanding of U.S. imperial interests.

                        •  Well: (0+ / 0-)

                          You could write a whole diary about this, since you're knowledgeable about this topic. It would be a good idea to let people know about all this. But it seems like PV is a site very similar to Kos only a lot farther to the left. As such, it has a lot of different viewpoints. If you have a problem with some of the writers or sources there, you might want to go over there and challenge them yourself. It seems like this is a problem with PV and not with this author.

                          •  and (2+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                            Eternal Hope, MajorFlaw

                            But it seems like PV is a site very similar to Kos only a lot farther to the left.

                            ... and tolerant of blatantly antisemitic hate speech from the world's best-known swastika-kissers.

                            Look up Edgar Steele, for example. Nice guy and recent poster:

                            After losing the Aryan Nations case, Steele began openly acknowledging his own anti-Semitic and white supremacist views. He has at various times accused Jews of owning the Federal Reserve Bank, running organized crime “throughout America,” and orchestrating the 9/11 terrorist attacks. In his writings on race Steele asks, “What color are Jews?” He answers, “Jews are the color of avarice and greed. Jews are the color of deception, manipulation and the lust for power. Jews are the color of dishonesty, selfishness and heartlessness.”

                            I am so not making this up.

                            In memory of Tom Disch.

                            by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:38:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  I like Counterpunch (0+ / 0-)

                              immensely, even though they go over the line occasionally.

                              I'm sure a lot of folks would love to censor them.

                              When the camel stumbles, the knives come out. (Arab proverb)

                              by Ptah the Great on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:41:58 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  But counterpunch kicked out Kurt Nimmo (0+ / 0-)

                                ... when Nimmo slid into Holocaust denial. So now Nimmo's among the other Holocaust deniers at the site Eileen advertises at.

                                In memory of Tom Disch.

                                by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:50:58 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                •  Oh the outrage! (0+ / 0-)

                                  Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z...

                                  When the camel stumbles, the knives come out. (Arab proverb)

                                  by Ptah the Great on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:53:03 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  •  To some people, Holocaust denial is a snoozer. (2+ / 0-)

                                    Recommended by:
                                    MajorFlaw, word is bond

                                    I am not one of those people.

                                    In memory of Tom Disch.

                                    by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 01:08:13 PM PDT

                                    [ Parent ]

                                    •  I find people who would censor them (0+ / 0-)

                                      far more dangerous.

                                      Even though I disagree with holocaust deniers vehemently.

                                      When the camel stumbles, the knives come out. (Arab proverb)

                                      by Ptah the Great on Mon May 28, 2007 at 01:16:09 PM PDT

                                      [ Parent ]

                                      •  just one problem (2+ / 0-)

                                        Recommended by:
                                        Eternal Hope, MajorFlaw

                                        I find people who would censor them far more dangerous.

                                        That would include, of course, DailyKos, where Holocaust denial is censored. To the great relief and joy of all but a few Kossacks.

                                        So be careful -- you're apparently on a dangerous site.

                                        In memory of Tom Disch.

                                        by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 01:22:34 PM PDT

                                        [ Parent ]

                                        •  dkos can do what it wants on its own site (0+ / 0-)

                                          But when some of its more zealous members start assassinating characters because of they read a web site that has on occasion given space to people who on yet other sites have written things that can be construed as holocaust denial (the definition of which has often been stretched to include merely questioning numbers), then it becomes a farce.

                                          When the camel stumbles, the knives come out. (Arab proverb)

                                          by Ptah the Great on Mon May 28, 2007 at 04:18:38 PM PDT

                                          [ Parent ]

                                          •  euphemize much? (0+ / 0-)

                                            things that can be construed as holocaust denial (the definition of which has often been stretched to include merely questioning numbers), then it becomes a farce.

                                            Your willingness to euphemize to defend the likes of David Irving and Ernst Zündel as if their decades leading the Holocaust denial movement were merely putative does you absolutely no credit.

                                            And, yes, to postulate numbers of Holocaust dead which far undershoot the historical record is Holocaust denial, no two ways about it. Especially when, like Irving and Zündel, you wrap your results in antisemitic conspiracy rhetoric. Sorry that you find that farce.

                                            In memory of Tom Disch.

                                            by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 08:23:36 PM PDT

                                            [ Parent ]

                            •  Then: (2+ / 0-)

                              Recommended by:
                              MajorFlaw, zemblan

                              They abuse free speech, seeing that they publish Steele, among others. I can see your point now that you have shown me the link and met the burden of proof. I'll have to think about this some more, but suffice it to say that instead of free speech, by tolerating hatemongers like Steele, they are really advocating license to hate. I am an absolutist on free speech, but there is a catch -- it can't infringe on the rights of others.

                              At the same time, I don't see Fleming as supporting those views; I think that she either doesn't understand why you are so upset with it because she is blind to it, or she doesn't want to know. I won't jump you for holding her accountable for who she assoicates with given the seriousness of this offense, but I don't want to see her banned since this is not a violation of site rules. You might want to write Hunter and ask for a ruling on this, since his opinion is the only one that matters. Or one of the other posters if they jump in.

                              •  As I've said all along (2+ / 0-)

                                Recommended by:
                                Eternal Hope, MajorFlaw

                                I am so not making this up.

                                I have been very careful all along not to claim that Eileen is an antisemite or a Holocaust denier or whatever. But by choosing to associate with them and cross her DKos posts onto their site, she fatally compromises her credibility.

                                The best solution would be for her to disassociate herself from the site and remain a DKos poster. But it seems pretty clear that, one way or another, she can't be both a poster here and a poster there.

                                In memory of Tom Disch.

                                by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 01:20:51 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                      •  I did not see any of the anti-semetic authors... (0+ / 0-)

                        http://www.google.com/...
                          zundel, neo-nazi holocaust denier

                      •  you didn't look very hard (0+ / 0-)

                        as I've mentioned before -- search for, say, Ernst Zundel, the world's best-known Holocaust denier.

                        In memory of Tom Disch.

                        by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:33:51 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  read it and weep (0+ / 0-)

                    www.thepeoplesvoice.org

                    While you're there, search for David Irving, Ernst Zundel, David Duke, and Eileen Fleming.

                    In memory of Tom Disch.

                    by zemblan on Mon May 28, 2007 at 12:32:57 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Eternal HOPE! THANX for WISDOM! (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Ptah the Great

                I have repeatedly told the anal retentives I am NOT liable, responsible or in solidarity with any other words of any author,

                Other than me!

                I have nearly begged them to judge me on my words;
                and move beyond their limited thinking.

                I have written many words about many things:

                http://www.wearewideawake.org/

                hoping Eternal Hope will comment on them!

              •  At best it's disingenuous, not unlike (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                leftynyc, Pumpkinlove, zemblan

                our old pal RB coming here and telling us that "genital integrity" is a liberal issue while going to RW sites and telling them it's a conservative issue.  And that's the best reading.  

                What I probably resent more than anything is the implication that I'm too simpleminded to figure out what the deal is.  She came here very recently and, by her own words, discovered this issue after 9/11/01.  That makes her a true neophyte compared to many of the regulars who debate the issue here.  

                I'm sure Ms. Fleming is shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that some of the people she is working with don't like Jews.  If she finds this uncomfortable or counterproductive the onus is on her to change it.    

                •  But I don't know that she is. (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Ptah the Great

                  I have yet to see links to this alleged behavior that he says that she is engaging in.

                  •  I am receiving FREE ad from PeoplesVoice (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Ptah the Great

                    Once more, i repeat:

                    i am NOT responsible for content editors publish;

                    i write to be read and consider it grace; which means:

                    a free gift.

                    i hate no one and am not the editor of Peoples Voice, they publish many people;

                    i do pay for an ad on:

                    http://www.opednews.com/

                    Oped has been publishing me since 2005.

                    Peoples Voice about 6 months.

                    and they are open to my reports on the Christian EXODUS from the Holy land which has reduced their numbers from 20% of the total population to less than 1.3% since '48.

                    the PC's are decendents first century Christians who were called followers of THE WAY:

                    THE WAY being what JC really said; you must forgive to be forgiven, you must love all and NOT judge any other heart but your own.

                    i write what i see;

                    i write from my heart.

                    judge me on me; NOT on a site i have no control of and one gracious enough to offer me FREE PR,

                    I do NOT write hate.

                    But for some, the truth can be tough to take.

                    e
                    http://www.wearewideawake.org/

                    "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."-John 8:32

                    •  That's not the problem. (6+ / 0-)

                      The problem is with who you have associated with, not with what you write. Let me explain more about this site. This is a site that is totally opposed to any kind of hate speech and which displays zero tolerance for it. We are a Democratic blog which is dedicated to getting Democrats elected.

                      The problem is that even though you may not share their views, the problem is that people associate you with them in their minds and they completely ignore what you have to say. There are some things that are simply not a matter for debate. Torture should not be a matter for debate. Holocaust denial should not be a matter for debate. Endorsing the KKK should not be a matter for debate. The problem with PV is that they think that it should be. That is the whole problem with them.

                      So, you are only hurting yourself here if you continue to associate with people like these. I know it is not fair and I know that all diaries ought to be read on the merits, but that does not happen all of the time. That is simply a fact of life. If you want people to accept your free gifts here, then you have to disassociate yourself from PV by yanking your ads from that site if you do not want to be associated with hatemongers and holocaust deniers.

                      There are much better sites with much bigger audiences that you can present your views on for free and you would not be associated with hatemongers and people would be a lot more receptive to your message. You could try Booman Tribune, My Left Wing, Diatribune, Political Cortex, TPM Cafe, and there are a whole host of other blogs out there that have bigger audiences that you could get your views out to without damaging your own credibility in the eyes of the people you are trying to reach out to.

                      •  Democrats and your insight (0+ / 0-)

                        This is a site that is totally opposed to any kind of hate speech and which displays zero tolerance for it.

                        I am abhor hate speech as much as you,

                        But ONLY by engaging with the other side is there any hope to change hearts and minds.

                        We are a Democratic blog which is dedicated to getting Democrats elected.

                        Well, I am an independent voter and totally on board about getting rid of neo-cons, BUT, the dems have yet to offer much in the way of change, don't you think?

                        I do appreciate all you have written and ONLY because PV publishes WITHOUT censorship will i continue to submit articles to them, for education is the way to compassion, and compassion is the way to change.

                        e

                        •  Let me put it this way: (0+ / 0-)

                          If you are publishing there with the idea of changing LaRouche and the holocaust deniers, then you are kidding yourself. There is no reasoning with these people any more than there is with Bush and the Neocons and people like the settlers who steal land from the Palestinians. For you to successfully change people, they have to want to change. Jesus and Paul were as successful as they were because they spoke to people who were willing to change, not the people who thought they had it made already.

                          You might want to check out Al Gore's Assault on Reason. In a nutshell, the fact of the matter is that a lot of the right has thrown reason and rationality and logic out the window, so that your efforts to reason with them will not do any good.

                          And you might want to check out My Left Wing and consider moving your ad to their place. They are just as anti-censorship as PV -- the one difference is that they do not allow right-wing propaganda or hate speech/holocaust denial. I know the owner of that blog, Maryscott O'Connor. She did not get along with Kos here and got banned recently, but I know her well enough that she would welcome you with open arms and let you write whatever you wanted. She is about as close to an absolutist on free speech as she can get. And not only that, it is a lot bigger platform than PV, although it is not as big as this place.

            •  Lyndon LaRouche (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              MBNYC, Shane Hensinger

              http://www.publiceye.org/...
               Populist Party, LaRouchite, and Other Neo-fascist Overtures To Progressives, And Why They Must Be Rejected
              By Chip Berlet
              Political Research Associates
              http://www.publiceye.org/...
              http://www.publiceye.org/...

      •  you cross-post these diaries to that hate site. (0+ / 0-)

        How did I live without him?

        by Pumpkinlove on Mon May 28, 2007 at 03:50:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Back to THE TOPIC (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope

    Which among other things, was about Gaza.

    Tell me what you think of Noam Chomsky in this clip re: the grossly unreported abduction of the two Gaza civilians on June 24, 2006, BEFORE the retaliatory abduction of the Israeli soldier:

    http://www.progressiveindependent.co...

    And once again, although it's been, great fun, i am off for fun in the sun,

    so bye bye until tomorrow,

    when i will offer you an introduction to a few Israeli Anarchists Against the Wall;

    xox,

    e
    http://www.wearewideawake.org/

    PS-APARTHEID will be a tag; because THE WALL is!